Jeff Hibbard interview
Jeff paints us a picture of a blue collar city in the 50's and 60's, a boy with a guitar and his ambition to play it. Like a million other kids throughout the world he joins a band. The story could be yours, if it weren't for the fact that the singer in Jeff's first band was none other than Ozzy Osbourne...
- What part of Birmingham were you born in ?
I was born in Shady Lane, Great Barr, Birmingham, 12 April 1951 in a Pre-fab, a sort of Bungalow that can be constructed in one day. These came about because of the need for homes after the second World War.
- The atmosphere in the UK, when you were growing up, was entirely different to anywhere else in the world. Lotsa things happening musically. How did you see all that ?
Well, when you are young I think you accept things a lot easier. When I was ten years old, the Beatles were like twenty, you know, so they were like our childhood heroes. Their collar length hair was quite daring in them days. There was a great excitement in them and their music, and of course it was all in black and white in the early days. You were either a Beatle fan or a Stones fan in them days, but our Dad would not put anything but Mario Lanza on our Gramophone. And to be honest, I still love that kind of music today. Those great lyrics, set to fantastic melodies ! Then there were the Inkspots, the Platters and those kind of harmony groups, Radio Luxembourg...I used to listen to that in bed, the station fading in and out giving us all those songs that we didn't get on our daily radio shows. It is true what they say, we were brought up on the best music.
- Just about everywhere in England countless new bands emerged. How did Birmingham distinguish itself from the rest of the UK in that respect ?
We grew up with music in many ways. They would play classical stuff when you entered the Assembly Hall at school in the morning, then when you got home there would be films and musicals on the telly and on the radio. There was always a good old singsong at Christmas and at the pubs... we were surrounded by it really. My Father played the Accordion when he was young, he played the Brummy pubs in the late thirties, early forties. My cousin Molly is a classical pianist and Mom had a nice singing voice. She would be singing 'That old black magic' and other great tunes while she was preparing the dinner for us lot. In the 1950's you could not get on telly or radio though unless you spoke like the King or Queen, all those stupid posh accents that denied the reality of the real England with its many different accents. We had to try harder you know, if you didn't live in the big smoke - London that is. You just weren't taken seriously.
Well, how did Liverpool do it? They came up with the Beatles and so on. Birmingham came up with the Moody Blues and all the others. Guitars were all the rage now, groups here, bands there, every one was at it, just hoping for that big lucky break. So it's no surprise really that England gave birth to all these groups, entertainers and comedians.
- Apparently you were already interested at a very early age in getting your own guitar...
Well yes, as I said, it was all the rage. I remember we used to go after school to the playground at Hastings Road junior school. There would be these older guys in the classroom playing their guitars at night, practising, and we would stand outside in the playground and listen to them. I was about ten years old then, so that was around 1961. They used to tell us politely to go away, if you get my drift. But we used to sneak back and have another listen. I mean the main instrument back then was the piano in the pubs or the Accordion. You didn't always need amplification, because the audience was not large. Ok there were the large Orchestras and you would see a guitarist in there, but no one could hear him. It took the likes of Jango Reinhardt and such to bring the guitar to the front as a lead instrument.
- You went to school with a classmate called Robert Plant who you bought your first guitar from.
Yes, but this is not the famous Robert Plant. He lived 5 miles away from us. The Robert Plant that I was at school with had two sisters and one brother, and lived in the same road as us. I had to keep on at him to bring that Spanish guitar to school, so that I could buy it. Finally he did and I gave him two weeks paper round money for it. So it cost me one pound and ten shillings. It had three strings missing and was painted all over in red metallic hammer finish paint. That was the sort of thing kids were doing to guitars then. Nevertheless it was all mine and I now had one at home to practise on whenever I wanted to. This would be about 1963. We were at Warren Farm senior school. I remember seeing a group there later and they were doing 'Keep on running'.
- You mention The Shadows as the first famous band you saw live. That must have been a huge influence for a budding guitar player...
Yes they are great ! I was about fourteen at the time, sitting there with Mom and Dad and Shirley in the town hall at Great Yarmouth. I was glued to my seat. They were on the telly and the radio all the time. So to see them live was fantastic. We met Bernie Winters too. He was on the car park with his wife when we came out of the town hall. She had Blond hair and a big fur coat and they were standing by this huge open top American car. We had not seen anything like that in them days. And an unknown singer was performing at The Ponderosa, our club on the site. His name was Tony Orlando.
The first record I bought was, Rubber Soul, by the Beatles, it cost me fifteen shillings and sixpence.
- What kind of material did you practice in those early days ?
Well, I was playing some Shadows numbers, playing the lead part on a red F holed semi acoustic that I had bought from Yardley's at Snow Hill uptown. That Gramophone that we had, you could plug your guitar into it and play along with the record. It was great to be able to play a song, note for note all the way through and if you made a mistake then you had to start from the beginning again. Mom used to sit there and listen to me. I also used to play things like 'Somewhere over the Rainbow'. Some very interesting chord changes and all that in those types of songs. Those were written by the master songwriters.
- In 1967 you joined your first band, The Approach. How did that happen? Was that an existing band already ?
Yes, it was already in progress. When I first met them there was a bass player, a lead player, and a singer. At the back of the cellar was one small combo amp, about the size of a portable TV?
I was working at Bush Motors when I met the bass player and we got chatting about guitars and such and he asked me to join the group, simple as that. The bass player met me at the doors of the Church, it's a small Mission Hall really, and he guided me down the steps. In the dark corner was this tall guy wearing a guitar. We were introduced to each other. The bass said "this is our lead guitarist, Tony," and then turning towards the other guy, "and this is our singer, Ozzy." We said "alright" to each other. Tony stepped forward and asked me what I could play. I showed him a handful of chords and a bit of lead guitar. That was it, I was accepted. I was in a band. They wanted a rhythm guitarist so that's what I was in The Approach.
- None other than Ozzy Osbourne was their singer...
He surely was, quietly confident about himself, totally unaware of the fame that would become him a couple of years into the future.
- The story goes that Tony Iommi knew him from school and thought he was a real dork... Did you know Ozzy already before you joined the band ?
I met Ozzy when I joined The Approach. We lived just three miles apart but you tended to stick to your own area you know, with your own mates. I mean, my Mothers Father, Mark Rose, was born in Park Lane, Aston. That's the Lane that Toni Iommi's Father had a shop in. Marks parents would have bought things from that shop. There were no big supermarkets in them days, only local shops. All these areas are quite small really and very close together. To be honest, we were not well off either. By 1957/58 we had moved from our smart little pre-fab in Shady Lane to a bigger house in Witton Lodge road. The only thing we had in Witton Lodge road that Ozzy didn't have, was a third bedroom and a very basic bathroom. There was nothing on the floors or walls but an iron bath and a crock sink. Central heating in homes was unheard of ! We had an open coal fire in one room, one old black and white Telly and the Gramophone. Just a bed in each bedroom, something to hang your clothes in, if you were lucky. Of course Mom and Dad worked very hard and made the house very comfortable over the years for us. So Ozzy lived in Lodge road at Aston and I now lived in Witton Lodge road at Perry Common. Brum ( Birmingham ) is considered to be the Workshop of the World...very heavy metal foundries and factories in them early years. Going back even further we supplied pens and nibs to loads of states in America, to the schools over there. If you looked into the history of Brum you would be amazed. The old name for Birmingham is Brummagem, hundreds of years old that name is. The short name is Brum, and if you come from there then you are a Brummy. It is the Birthplace of the Industrial Revolution.
- Was Ozzy into that whole black scene already with the crucifixes and all that ?
Well, he certainly wasn't into that in the Approach. I mean we all used to watch horror films and Dracula and all that. A friend of my cousin had a pair of Dracula teeth and he used to jump out of hedges and scare old ladies but we dressed very normal. Not like the kids today. I mean we had Winkle pickers, Flared trousers and Hipsters and all that, but things were very different in those days. Parents were quite strict really. We weren't forced to go to church or anything, but the discipline was very strong in the home. Dads were the gaffer in them days, very much so. You did as you were told, or else... There were no rules against getting the cane at school, or a slap around the earhole. You may find this hard to believe but the Manager at our Cinema, The Mayfair, used to walk around the young audience on a Saturday morning holding a cane ! If you played up, he would hit you. You would not tell Mom or Dad because you would get told off again, or worse. So in them days you would not step too far out of what was considered normal. That's how we were brought up.
- How would you describe Ozzy as a person in those days ?
Quiet, polite, friendly, working class, like the rest of us.
- Did he have the ambition in those days to get ahead in music ?
Oh yeah! We all strove to improve that band. Ozzy was pretty confident about himself. We all were in a quiet way.
None of us had a lot of money, no transport at that particular time, only the buses or go it on foot. Until Tony came up with a van and we went from practising in a cellar to practising in a school hall. I was earning eight pounds and ten shillings a week then at Bush Motors, Chester road. My new amp was on the weekly and of course I would give Mom some money. So at the end there wasn't much left with bus fares to work and that.
- What kind of material did you play ?
Soul songs. We covered Midnight Hour, Michael the lover Lord, Knock on Wood, Sweet soul Music and a couple more and then later we added a completely new style of songs to the list.
-Tell us something about life in the band with Ozzy...
Well like I said, I met Ozzy in the concrete cellar underneath the Mission Hall. We said 'alright' to each other, he turned back the other way and carried on singing into his mic. Tony could see that I had some potential, I guess, The bass watched too as I showed them what I could play. Tony was the tallest in the group, I mean very tall, six foot plus. Ozzy was a bit shorter, the bass was a bit shorter than Ozzy and then there was me, the shortest.
I bought a small amp straight away, you know, so that at least we had three guitars, my amp and their small amp to practice with in the cellar. God it was cold in there some times, no PA system and no drummer but Ozzy made us laugh the one time when he came to practise with his one arm in bandage. "I got pissed at the Aston Hotel the other night and fell down the fucking stairs", Ozzy said, proudly displaying his injured arm. We later looked at the Aston Hotel as our next place of practise but Tony didn't like the idea of carrying the gear up and down the stairs. The room was big enough, ideal really. They stood there with a pint each, I was too young to buy beer then, so Tony gave me a sip of his pint.
By this time we were needing better gear so me and Ozzy went to town to George Clays music shop, It was great looking at the new stuff. Ozzy went for a small but sufficient PA system made by VOX and I plumbed for a VOX conquer lead guitar amp. I mean the Beatles were using VOX gear, so its got to be good stuff. The crux of the matter now is, how do we get our gear to the practise ? Simple really. Tony came up with a van ! Where he's got it from, God only knows ! Who cares anyway. We got new gear, we got a van, we've even got a new place to practise at the hall at Underwood school. We were very eager to set up the stuff and play a lot louder than we did in the cellar.
It was great here in the hall, lots of lighting, plenty of sockets to plug into, no awkward stairs. We carried the gear straight in through the doors and into the hall. Still no drummer, but we paced ourselves anyway. Ozzy adjusted the sound on his PA, we all got tuned up right and away we go with the soul songs. it was brilliant.
Then the next time a drummer turned up and we were playing together as a full set, a complete band. The drummer didn't say anything, I didn't even know what his name was, but who cares. We sounded really good with him. We didn't even have to show him anything. He knew the songs we were playing. At the end he put his gear into a car and drove off on his own. I guess he would not have fitted into the van anyway. There was no room for him and the drums.
Tony was in the driving seat, the bass is in the other seat at the front, Ozzy was sitting on the one wheel arch in the back and I was sitting on the opposite wheel arch of the van and me and Ozz were both holding all the amps in place. Tony turned around and gave us a big smile.
They dropped me off at home in Witton Lodge road. Ozzy helped me to the house with my amp. "See you at the next practise", I said. We played there a few times, at the school, people listened to us. We were asked to play at a wedding. Someone even took a photograph of us.
We added Purple Haze to our list. A strange kind of music was coming about, strange but wonderful ! One minute Ozzy was singing "I'm gonna knock on Wood", the next minute he is singing "Excuse me while I kiss the sky". These were words that made us think, maybe there will be more of this kind of music, maybe this is the way to go...
- Did you record anything? Do any home-made recordings exist of The Approach ?
I wish ! Not as far as I know, unless some one had a tape recorder hidden somewhere. Mind you, as I have recently stated there was actually a photo taken of The Approach. There's a description of it on my website. I have also given it to certain people in authority in case it comes up one day. Mom and Dad came and listened to us, and my Brother and his Wife did too.
- How did the band come to and end ?
Quite abruptly really, that happened in mid April 1967. I know that because of the release date of Purple Haze. It was the bass who got me into the band and the bass who told me it was finished.
I actually met the bass player again about a year later. I was working at another garage on Walsall Road. He came to collect a spare part from us, just like he did when we first met.
Toni Iommi stated recently in a guitar magazine, You were lucky if you played in a soul band then,nobody wanted to listen to us ( Black Sabbath ).
- You also put your career on hold for a while...
Well, what happened was motorbikes. I was still playing guitar, finding new chords and lead and that. But I was into bikes for about three years, going to Santa Pod, the Double Zero club, getting soaking wet in the winter. We didn't bother with crash helmets and that in them days. Then in 1970/71 I got engaged and Mom was so relieved to see me pack the bikes in. I wasn't sorry myself to be honest. Dad taught me to drive his Hillman Imp. Motorbikes were just a short interruption, of course, with a child on the way in 1973. No big pots of money. It was a car we needed, forget the bikes! My first car was an Austin Cambridge, it cost me twenty five pounds,and it had six months M.O.T., but it was a start. Years later Dad said to me "You used to worry your Mother to death riding them bloody motorbikes".
- But you got back to playing in local bands...
Oh yeah! It wasn't long before I was playing with other people again, all sorts of duos and trios, foursomes, you know. I went to one audition as lead guitarist and the singer was a midget. Then another time there's a Fireman knocking on the front door, saying "Alright Jeff, fancy joining our band". All sorts of things like that were happening in between The Approach and Amber.
- You joined Amber in 1976. You mainly played the classic rock hits. Did that mean that there was no real drive to make it as a band and that you just wanted to enjoy yourself ?
Well the drive really was to get in a band that was working, to play to audiences, to improve on what you've already done. I was working for the Housing Department at the time in 1975/76. Funnily enough, I got talking to a bass player again, he was called Phil Mooreland. Phil had been playing the pubs and clubs for years before I met him. We played together for nearly ten years with different drummers and singers. In those years we played at many pubs and clubs and we always went down well. I had to join this group as a rhythm guitarist too, but after about a year I became the lead guitarist. We played at places like, the Bromford club. We played there for years. Hardy Spicer's was one of the bigger clubs that we played at. There was a notice on the back of the dressing room door : "Groups, do not play Hi ho silver Lining, at this club".
We also played at many pubs too, one of them being the Crown. We played on the ground floor, a few years before that, the first floor of the Crown pub was called "Henry's Blues House". That is one of the first places that Black Sabbath played at. We were playing at the Crown the one night and we were half way through a song. The people were dancing and started to drift apart, revealing this bloke who was dancing stark naked. Everyone was laughing at him, more so the women. The bouncers promptly chucked him out onto the street, followed by his clothes. Then at one of the clubs some one got stabbed and went out on a stretcher. There were lots of incidents like that. We played in a huge hanger on a farm in Little Aston. They made the stage out of scaffolding and batons. That was good fun.
At that time I was not a writer, mainly a guitarist looking to improve. Sultans of Swing was a good one for me as a lead guitarist. That was a long time ago now, but later in that band we did write a few songs and we mixed them in with the other well known songs.
- Taking in mind that Punk was just around the corner, did that Influence you in any way ?
I don't think it did. I don't dislike Punk, but my influences were well seated years before Punk came about. Although I do remember some good songs, you know, and wondered if some of it was Punk. I mean, really, there are only good songs and bad songs, you know. It doesn't matter what sort of clothes you are wearing or how your hair is... that's just fashion, that's for the stage. When I listen to the radio I don't think "Oh! I wonder what they are wearing". It's whether it grabs me or not or whether it sends a shiver down the spine sometimes. I sort of admired the rebellious side of it in a way, like Rock was in its very early days.
- Amber became Trapper, but by the mid 80's there were some changes in store...
Err, yes, I stopped playing with Phil in that working band Trapper. I did bump into him more than once and I got the feeling that I could go back into that band if I wanted to. What happened at that time was the break up of my Marriage and I felt that my true commitment was at home. After all I had been playing with musicians for twenty years now and had been on stage for almost ten years. So it was not as if I had not got to do these things, or that I would not do it again. I had also lost my job because of job cuts. Get rid of some of the workers and the workers who are left can do twice as much work for the same amount of money. That's how it's going work-wise, and yes there certainly have been a lot of changes over the past few years.
- Yet, for you that was merely the starting point to explore your own possibilities...
That's right, I was looking after my son, my own house and that. After a while I thought that this wasn't too bad at all. I got myself a Phillips studio two recorder. It was half price in a sale, ninety nine pounds. I got a couple of mic's, an old Spanish guitar which I still own and started to record rough demos of the songs I was writing. Again no big pots of money. After a few years of writing songs my Daughter Kelly said, "The trouble is dad, you're writing these songs but you're not doing anything with them". I thought maybe she is right. So I looked for someone who could do professional demos of some of them and I found that in the International Songwriters Association.
I had also taught my Son Chris to play guitar and he still plays to this day. I have toyed around with a few more bands over the last few years. But the thing today in Brum is that a lot of pubs and clubs have closed over the years, and gone for good. So it is a lot harder to find a gig these days. Plus a lot of singers have been using backing tracks for some years now, which does away with the need for musicians. Having said that, I went to listen to Phil about two years ago in 2002. He was playing at a local pub with Ex-Idle Race member Dave Pritchard. They were doing rhythm and blues numbers. I told Dave how much I admired the Idle Race songs.
- Looking back, do you wish things would have gone differently career wise ?
Looking back from here, I seem to have had a pretty good time gaining the experience to play in groups, to be the lead guitarist, and then to write songs too. I have nothing to complain about really. Music runs in the family so it's a natural thing to me. It would have been good to get on vinyl or something as a lead guitarist, but, really, I can pick up that instrument anytime I like and play it. You should do it because you like it, not just for fame. That fame may never come. If you've done it because you wanted to, where's the disappointment ?.
- I have listened to the samples on your website and hear some strong songs with mighty fine guitar playing. What's in the future for you ?
Well, thanks for the compliments. I do hope that my songs find a place somewhere, somehow. As for the guitar, I don't ever want to stop playing. We were at our local pub Saturday night and I got talking to these younger guys. We sat there with a pint and talked about music, instruments and groups and I thought... "Hey you, your pushing 54 mate, these guys are 28. Yet they showed an interest and wanted to chat". And I thought later "Isn't that great!" That's music.
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